3DMM Sound Design

Aaron Haynes · 08-28-2005, 04:38 AM

In the wake of complaints about Derelict's inconsistent sound design quality (footsteps being noticably absent, objects hitting the floor and making inappropriate or no sounds), and thinking about what Bernatrick told me about Vlarion being too quiet, I spent about fifteen minutes or so watching a sequence in the film and adding sounds at different volumes and frequencies. The result was instantly noticable. I was amazed at how much the addition of footsteps in this case added to the weight of the scene. I'd spent a great deal of time tweaking and perfecting the sounds in the battle scenes, but when it came to conversations or other non-action sequences, somehow I'd simply put it out of my mind. It's incredible how much it helps.

With a 6.6fps framerate and various irritants like sound bugs, hard-to-reach objects, and an inconsistency in sounds starting when there are a lot of them in a short sequence of frames, sound design in 3DMM can be a real pain in the ass. But I'm sold on how important it is now; check out the dead air in films like Gnomes, Moderately Confused, and especially Derelict -- one bit of misplaced silence can kill the mood of a film and trigger a severe cynical reaction from the audience. If you've got a project on the way, take the time to comb through it and make the audio support the film at every possible spot. It's an area of moviemaking that usually gets overlooked in reviews and testviews, but it's often a make-or-break facet of the experience for viewers who aren't sold yet.

To this end, I also think a "Best Sound Design" category for the 2005 awards movie is a good idea, and I'm looking forward to competing with the rest of you.

Ned · 08-28-2005, 04:40 AM

Amen and amen.

Travis Wells · 08-28-2005, 04:48 AM

T AARON I AM NEAR DEAF AND HATE YOU

* abandons project v *

Destra · 08-28-2005, 04:54 AM

I'd like to request that when people make sounds for their movies. That they don't make them impossibly loud and beyond what 3dmm can handle. Several of the sounds in the original Vlarion almost made my ears bleed because they were like static fed through a megaphone next to my head.

Aaron Haynes · 08-28-2005, 04:56 AM

ZARETHIO.wav can rattle windows.

Slade · 08-28-2005, 12:23 PM

Yeah Aaron, I still refuse to believe you did some of those sounds with your mouth.

Demented Ferret · 08-28-2005, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Haynes
ZARETHIO.wav can rattle windows.

I have about 8000W of Surround and would like to confirm this. POST PLZ.

Destra · 08-28-2005, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chippy
Yeah Aaron, I still refuse to believe you did some of those sounds with your mouth.

The fire sound effects are very obvious. But most of the others could easily be done with the aid of a little audio editing package. Hell, even sound recorder could work.

Apfigur · 08-28-2005, 12:41 PM

I think sound design is the funniest bit in making a 3dmm movie.

Samuel Deacon · 08-28-2005, 01:49 PM

With movies the volume of the sound is supposed to be lower than normal, so it can maintain clarity when amplified. Note you always have to turn the speakers up when watching DVDs. The same should apply to 3dmm, as the sound compression can really fuck up the sound at high volume.

For Foresight, I'm recording all my sound effects and dialogue in stereo and at a reasonable volume, as I intend to do the same as with Bongo IHMLAWTD, and make a video version of it. It took a hell of a long time to re-master all the sound effects in that.

If only there was a way to import stereo into 3dmm. High Q doesnt want to do it.

Salter · 08-28-2005, 05:41 PM

Adding to Aaron's point, there are many directors who like the sound editing bit the best, myself included. Once I'm done with the animating, I love to go in and make it sound great. Now some of that is because I know my animation is limited, so I make my sound better to counteract it.
That said, I'd be more than happy to take someone's movie and do sound editing for them.

Samuel Deacon · 08-28-2005, 05:48 PM

Im a sucker for the sound editing too. The music in particular is probably by favourite part.

Ned · 08-28-2005, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Samuel Deacon
Im a sucker for the sound editing too. The music in particular is probably by favourite part.

Aaron Haynes · 08-28-2005, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Destra Afsetis
The fire sound effects are very obvious. But most of the others could easily be done with the aid of a little audio editing package. Hell, even sound recorder could work.

Not in 1999, when I was 15 and didn't even have access to mp3s.

Kim Turley · 08-28-2005, 07:42 PM

one thing i hate is when voices are different levels, and the wrong levels for the scene

Demented Ferret · 08-28-2005, 10:17 PM

Can someone please use this extremely simple technique that a lot of films use - but I've yet to see being used effectively in 3dmm:

Video: Scene 1 ------------------ | Scene 2 ------------------|
Audio: Scene 1 --------------| Scene 2 -----------------------|

Aaron Haynes · 08-28-2005, 10:22 PM

You mean offsetting the audio so we hear dialogue, sound effects, or music before scenes begin? I've done that several times in Vlarion, but you're right, I've always looked for it in 3DMM and have rarely seen it put to good use.

Slade · 08-28-2005, 11:42 PM

Yeah I've always noticed that. It's always in discussions and sometimes the buildup of music and so on. It's never really been done in 3dmm, no. I'll see if I can shove that in my movie somewhere.

Brossy · 08-29-2005, 01:28 AM

I've always taken lots of care with sound, and done things like made my own sounds by mixing others (FFTOS - Crash.wav for example, that thing is in every second movie now!).

Have always tried to fade my music perfectly too, and in some cases done some slight sound syncing.

Sounds make a massive difference

Lord Blazer · 08-29-2005, 01:56 AM

DESERT EAGLE HAS WONDERFUL SOUND DESIGN.

Mousenator · 08-29-2005, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Demented Ferret
Can someone please use this extremely simple technique that a lot of films use - but I've yet to see being used effectively in 3dmm:

Video: Scene 1 ------------------ | Scene 2 ------------------|
Audio: Scene 1 --------------| Scene 2 -----------------------|

I tried that in Derelict at one point but it didn't come off very well.

Fish Taco · 08-29-2005, 05:07 AM

Hey Aaron man this was all my suggestion >

!

Aaron Haynes · 08-29-2005, 05:15 AM

Uh, yeah, you were acknowledged in the first post. I'm advocating it on a wider scale.

Fish Taco · 08-29-2005, 05:56 AM

Paint me a mural.

Ramza Brave · 08-29-2005, 07:04 AM

The problem with carrying ambient sound in 3dmm is the whole fading out. Even in a scene transition, and depending on the speeds of peoples computers. The sound mostly cuts out and ends up giving a worse reaction to people watching the movie.

08-28-2005, 04:38 AM	#1
Aaron Haynes Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 15,125	3DMM Sound Design In the wake of complaints about Derelict's inconsistent sound design quality (footsteps being noticably absent, objects hitting the floor and making inappropriate or no sounds), and thinking about what Bernatrick told me about Vlarion being too quiet, I spent about fifteen minutes or so watching a sequence in the film and adding sounds at different volumes and frequencies. The result was instantly noticable. I was amazed at how much the addition of footsteps in this case added to the weight of the scene. I'd spent a great deal of time tweaking and perfecting the sounds in the battle scenes, but when it came to conversations or other non-action sequences, somehow I'd simply put it out of my mind. It's incredible how much it helps. With a 6.6fps framerate and various irritants like sound bugs, hard-to-reach objects, and an inconsistency in sounds starting when there are a lot of them in a short sequence of frames, sound design in 3DMM can be a real pain in the ass. But I'm sold on how important it is now; check out the dead air in films like Gnomes, Moderately Confused, and especially Derelict -- one bit of misplaced silence can kill the mood of a film and trigger a severe cynical reaction from the audience. If you've got a project on the way, take the time to comb through it and make the audio support the film at every possible spot. It's an area of moviemaking that usually gets overlooked in reviews and testviews, but it's often a make-or-break facet of the experience for viewers who aren't sold yet. To this end, I also think a "Best Sound Design" category for the 2005 awards movie is a good idea, and I'm looking forward to competing with the rest of you.

08-28-2005, 04:40 AM	#2
Ned Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,742	Amen and amen.
Ned Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,742

08-28-2005, 04:54 AM	#4
Destra Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,594	I'd like to request that when people make sounds for their movies. That they don't make them impossibly loud and beyond what 3dmm can handle. Several of the sounds in the original Vlarion almost made my ears bleed because they were like static fed through a megaphone next to my head.
Destra Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,594

08-28-2005, 12:23 PM	#6
Slade Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 9,390	Yeah Aaron, I still refuse to believe you did some of those sounds with your mouth.
Slade Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 9,390

08-28-2005, 12:41 PM	#9
Apfigur Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,355	I think sound design is the funniest bit in making a 3dmm movie.
Apfigur Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,355

08-28-2005, 04:48 AM	#3
Travis Wells Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 11,147	T AARON I AM NEAR DEAF AND HATE YOU * abandons project v *

08-28-2005, 04:56 AM	#5
Aaron Haynes Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 15,125	ZARETHIO.wav can rattle windows.

08-28-2005, 01:49 PM	#10
Samuel Deacon Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 2,141	With movies the volume of the sound is supposed to be lower than normal, so it can maintain clarity when amplified. Note you always have to turn the speakers up when watching DVDs. The same should apply to 3dmm, as the sound compression can really fuck up the sound at high volume. For Foresight, I'm recording all my sound effects and dialogue in stereo and at a reasonable volume, as I intend to do the same as with Bongo IHMLAWTD, and make a video version of it. It took a hell of a long time to re-master all the sound effects in that. If only there was a way to import stereo into 3dmm. High Q doesnt want to do it.

08-28-2005, 05:41 PM	#11
Salter Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,958	Adding to Aaron's point, there are many directors who like the sound editing bit the best, myself included. Once I'm done with the animating, I love to go in and make it sound great. Now some of that is because I know my animation is limited, so I make my sound better to counteract it. That said, I'd be more than happy to take someone's movie and do sound editing for them.
Salter Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,958

08-28-2005, 05:48 PM	#12
Samuel Deacon Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 2,141	Im a sucker for the sound editing too. The music in particular is probably by favourite part.

08-28-2005, 07:42 PM	#15
Kim Turley Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 5,497	one thing i hate is when voices are different levels, and the wrong levels for the scene

08-28-2005, 10:17 PM	#16
Demented Ferret Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 16,248	Can someone please use this extremely simple technique that a lot of films use - but I've yet to see being used effectively in 3dmm: Video: Scene 1 ------------------ \| Scene 2 ------------------\| Audio: Scene 1 --------------\| Scene 2 -----------------------\|

08-28-2005, 10:22 PM	#17
Aaron Haynes Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 15,125	You mean offsetting the audio so we hear dialogue, sound effects, or music before scenes begin? I've done that several times in Vlarion, but you're right, I've always looked for it in 3DMM and have rarely seen it put to good use.

08-28-2005, 11:42 PM	#18
Slade Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 9,390	Yeah I've always noticed that. It's always in discussions and sometimes the buildup of music and so on. It's never really been done in 3dmm, no. I'll see if I can shove that in my movie somewhere.
Slade Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 9,390

08-29-2005, 01:28 AM	#19
Brossy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,376	I've always taken lots of care with sound, and done things like made my own sounds by mixing others (FFTOS - Crash.wav for example, that thing is in every second movie now!). Have always tried to fade my music perfectly too, and in some cases done some slight sound syncing. Sounds make a massive difference
Brossy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,376

08-29-2005, 01:56 AM	#20
Lord Blazer Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 16,879	DESERT EAGLE HAS WONDERFUL SOUND DESIGN.

08-29-2005, 05:07 AM	#22
Fish Taco Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 7,034	Hey Aaron man this was all my suggestion >!
Fish Taco Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 7,034

08-29-2005, 05:15 AM	#23
Aaron Haynes Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 15,125	Uh, yeah, you were acknowledged in the first post. I'm advocating it on a wider scale.

08-29-2005, 05:56 AM	#24
Fish Taco Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 7,034	Paint me a mural.
Fish Taco Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 7,034

08-29-2005, 07:04 AM	#25
Ramza Brave Banned Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7,843	The problem with carrying ambient sound in 3dmm is the whole fading out. Even in a scene transition, and depending on the speeds of peoples computers. The sound mostly cuts out and ends up giving a worse reaction to people watching the movie.
Ramza Brave Banned Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7,843