3dmm... over for some?

Anthropophagus · 11-12-2004, 07:38 AM

I was looking around in the 3dmm Discussion forum the other day and I finally realized that the program has died for old-school directors like me. I enjoy[ed] the days of Will's movies, which were animated using the standard props supplied with 3dmm. Very slick style and made use of the pitiful object selection. They were extremely creative because Will always had the challenge of making something complex out of various pieces (like a chaingun). Now, you can just import the weapon into your movie, entirely eliminating any effort.

This conversation has come up before: 3dmm's evolution. Some see it as a better outlet for directors. I agree to an extent. It certainly has made 3dmming easier, cutting out all of the time required to animate something like a spinning chaingun. But, is this new style (new textures, new models, new everything) really 3dmm? When I think of 3dmm, I think of solid color blocks and that stupid red car with the horns... not an imp from Doom.

Since there's no use arguing over this, let's just have a discussion... who feels alienated by all of these new expansions? Who would rather see 'old' 3dmm over the 'new' 3dmm? I, for one, definitely liked 3dmm when it was just the two official expansions: Doraemon and Nick.

Mike Johnston · 11-12-2004, 07:46 AM

People forget that movies aren't about hardcore animation and such, but good storylines and stability. And don't give me any of this "you can get a good storyline and stability while using a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle (or whatever is popular now)", because that's very untrue. Redux has astounding visual but, dare I say, the storyline was more like an acid flashback.

Midbackman · 11-12-2004, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sapone
there's no use arguing over this, let's just have a discussion...

YOU'RE WRONG! YOU'RE OH SO VERY WRONG!

Anthropophagus · 11-12-2004, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Johnston
People forget that movies aren't about hardcore animation and such, but good storylines and stability.

Maybe REAL-TIME movies. 3dmm is suited for animation.

Cal Flavell · 11-12-2004, 08:04 AM

I agree with Sapone. All this new stuff is just too different. I certainly feel alienated from using the program now...

Gavin Owers · 11-12-2004, 08:05 AM

I'm exactly like you, Jon. Nickelodeon and Doraemon were fine with me, but all these converted knickknacks that are popping out and scattering everywhere seems to be killing my motivation.
I'm sure most people (particularly the newbies) would fail to understand why I'm feeling like this, I don't really know why myself, but it feels as if everything is unorganised now. I can't explain it.
It's probably because I'm getting too old for 3dmm but I know I keep having this small fear/anger with this new stuff.

Sinarach · 11-12-2004, 08:11 AM

Back in the day, us Veterans had to work hard to animate, now it's all zippy textures and imported game models. Well, ring a ding ding, anyone can animate using that....

Midbackman · 11-12-2004, 08:15 AM

Y'know Pikios, you were right. I'd never finish TF. You were riiiiight.

Tell your mother.

Beast · 11-12-2004, 08:52 AM

I haven't gotten into the whole V3DMM thing yet, who cares if using these programs make animation easier, it doesn't ease the thought process gone into making a good movie. Everything you needed then to make a good movie you still need now, The animating in itself is still basically the same, yeah, importing a minigun and making one by yourself lowers the value, sure. Thats why you go above and beyond and make something no ones done before. Its not like the new additions limit your creativity. It still takes good direction to make a good movie, In a few monthes more and more movies will come out and people will start having to find new things to impress. Seeing still shots of demons isn't what the community is going to thrive on, It could very well be the next PAM with a little plot using Duke nukem to save hot naked alien women.

I think Patrick saving Nakita just doesn't have the same ring to it. Also, adding of cars. Nobody can be or has been, assed enough to make there own cars, though importing them adds one hell of a lot more flavor to a movie.

You can't bitch about a program because it looks better. Thats like complaining the plane in GTA goes faster then the cars. I mean, in the last game people actually had to work to get to where they were going.. Now this car bullshit is messing everything up and now I just cant enjoy it.

Yossarko · 11-12-2004, 09:08 AM

Hell, I lost interest when Doraemon came out. The idea of having to fuck around with installing that just to watch certain movies use a fucking blue cat pissed me off.

But even without expansions, 3dmm would still be over for me. I lost interest. I never bothered making a film after The Second Chance, I watched a few movies then just said "Ah, fuck it." and uninstalled the cunt.

I came for the movies, I stayed for Off-Topic.

Yossarko · 11-12-2004, 09:11 AM

I agree with Sapone though, that like, in the old days, you would see a chain gun or something and be like "Woah..." and even after the film, go back and take the props apart to see how it was made. Now, you'd see the chaingun 3D model/object and be like "YEAH WHATEVER"

tronderboo · 11-12-2004, 09:47 AM

It's a conservative argument, but I agree too. The thrill of it was seeing what people could do with the random pieces of objects and words there. I remember going through some movies after watching them and selecting bits and pieces just to see how it was done.

Also, I still ONLY have 3dmm... no expansions, no add-ons, no nothing. I doubt there's very much out there I can watch.

Ah well, there's still the BB... which I visit an unhealthy amount of times every single day.

The Chinese Jew · 11-12-2004, 09:48 AM

Ben, u know...I still have your unfinished movie "Scott Free"

James Burgon · 11-12-2004, 10:11 AM

I'm alienated, and I've lost all interest in 3dmm moviewise now.

Will Cheyney · 11-12-2004, 10:13 AM

Even though I think the whole v3dmm thing is quite exciting, I do think it may have a negative effect on directing in general. I do also feel a little behind the crowd.
It will may also mean that flicks with better models could be perceived as 'better movies', when in actual fact is is pure eye candy that has sold the movie.
I just hope that movies don't just become about the graphics (even more so than they have recently become with HMC becoming the norm).

Will Cheyney · 11-12-2004, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Chinese Jew
Ben, u know...I still have your unfinished movie "Scott Free"

What about 'Erasing the Permanent'?

Cal Flavell · 11-12-2004, 10:22 AM

Personally, I'm waiting for all the newbies who regularly use v3dmm to come in and defend it.

But I agree with everybody that has posted so far.

Demented Ferret · 11-12-2004, 10:32 AM

Well...All I can say is - no one is forcing V3dmm on to you. If you want to make movies Old School style - go ahead, the people who've been here for longer will definately understand that THATS a movie where a lot of effort has gone into. V3dmm is a lot more appealing to people who cannot construct such masterpieces using blocks of 3d text, or for people who want to show their movies to people OUTSIDE of the board. Its the way things work - I have two opinions on the matter:

1. V3dmm is a giant step forward, people can make fantastic movies with a lot less fiddling about - the boundries have been literally crushed and out creativity using the program has expanded 1000x over.

2. HOWEVER V3dmm, undoubtedly will make the classic movies seem a lot more shoddy-looking. Infact, making a great looking movie without using V3dmm is a lot harder than before, but on the other hand, making a VERY good looking movie with V3dmm is still hard. I think that by pushing boundries you're not really pushing creativity down at all.

The Chinese Jew · 11-12-2004, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cal Flavell
Personally, I'm waiting for all the newbies who regularly use v3dmm to come in and defend it.

But I agree with everybody that has posted so far.

I've been called a "conservative" for preferring the old 3dmm and not being fond of the V 3dmm.

tronderboo · 11-12-2004, 10:35 AM

Scott Free woulda been wicked! Had I, you know, finished it an' all.

The Chinese Jew · 11-12-2004, 10:35 AM

u still could, u know. I'll send u the damn thing.

tronderboo · 11-12-2004, 10:37 AM

Aaah, I got it too. But, here's the thing. I started making it on 3dmm on my Windows 98 PC, went to Uni, bought an XP one and the whole title sequence went do-lally. I'll have to spend some time on it soon enough.

When I've finished "Galbert of Bruges"'s MURDER OF CHARLES THE GOOD which I've got to read.

tronderboo · 11-12-2004, 10:38 AM

Oh yeah - Jeff, you might like this.

Last night I met up with Adam Shaw and we made a commentary for "Control"... three times. Just getting more and more drunk as we went along. Was pretty funny, I haven't seen him for ages.

The Chinese Jew · 11-12-2004, 10:39 AM

By the way Ben, remember the most recent 8 page script I sent u? If u haven't read it yet, don't read it.

I'll send u the most upto date version pretty soon.

tronderboo · 11-12-2004, 10:39 AM

Cool man - I've been really busy with a presentation and girls and stuff, so I've not got round to it.

Use bw2972@bris.ac.uk again if you can.

11-12-2004, 07:38 AM	#1
Anthropophagus Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 5,997	3dmm... over for some? I was looking around in the 3dmm Discussion forum the other day and I finally realized that the program has died for old-school directors like me. I enjoy[ed] the days of Will's movies, which were animated using the standard props supplied with 3dmm. Very slick style and made use of the pitiful object selection. They were extremely creative because Will always had the challenge of making something complex out of various pieces (like a chaingun). Now, you can just import the weapon into your movie, entirely eliminating any effort. This conversation has come up before: 3dmm's evolution. Some see it as a better outlet for directors. I agree to an extent. It certainly has made 3dmming easier, cutting out all of the time required to animate something like a spinning chaingun. But, is this new style (new textures, new models, new everything) really 3dmm? When I think of 3dmm, I think of solid color blocks and that stupid red car with the horns... not an imp from Doom. Since there's no use arguing over this, let's just have a discussion... who feels alienated by all of these new expansions? Who would rather see 'old' 3dmm over the 'new' 3dmm? I, for one, definitely liked 3dmm when it was just the two official expansions: Doraemon and Nick.

11-12-2004, 07:46 AM	#2
Mike Johnston Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 893	People forget that movies aren't about hardcore animation and such, but good storylines and stability. And don't give me any of this "you can get a good storyline and stability while using a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle (or whatever is popular now)", because that's very untrue. Redux has astounding visual but, dare I say, the storyline was more like an acid flashback.
Mike Johnston Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 893

11-12-2004, 08:11 AM	#7
Sinarach Banned Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 5,154	Back in the day, us Veterans had to work hard to animate, now it's all zippy textures and imported game models. Well, ring a ding ding, anyone can animate using that....
Sinarach Banned Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 5,154

11-12-2004, 08:52 AM	#9
Beast Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 7,998	I haven't gotten into the whole V3DMM thing yet, who cares if using these programs make animation easier, it doesn't ease the thought process gone into making a good movie. Everything you needed then to make a good movie you still need now, The animating in itself is still basically the same, yeah, importing a minigun and making one by yourself lowers the value, sure. Thats why you go above and beyond and make something no ones done before. Its not like the new additions limit your creativity. It still takes good direction to make a good movie, In a few monthes more and more movies will come out and people will start having to find new things to impress. Seeing still shots of demons isn't what the community is going to thrive on, It could very well be the next PAM with a little plot using Duke nukem to save hot naked alien women. I think Patrick saving Nakita just doesn't have the same ring to it. Also, adding of cars. Nobody can be or has been, assed enough to make there own cars, though importing them adds one hell of a lot more flavor to a movie. You can't bitch about a program because it looks better. Thats like complaining the plane in GTA goes faster then the cars. I mean, in the last game people actually had to work to get to where they were going.. Now this car bullshit is messing everything up and now I just cant enjoy it.
Beast Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 7,998

11-12-2004, 09:08 AM	#10
Yossarko Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 8,357	Hell, I lost interest when Doraemon came out. The idea of having to fuck around with installing that just to watch certain movies use a fucking blue cat pissed me off. But even without expansions, 3dmm would still be over for me. I lost interest. I never bothered making a film after The Second Chance, I watched a few movies then just said "Ah, fuck it." and uninstalled the cunt. I came for the movies, I stayed for Off-Topic.
Yossarko Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 8,357

11-12-2004, 08:04 AM	#5
Cal Flavell Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 10,557	I agree with Sapone. All this new stuff is just too different. I certainly feel alienated from using the program now...

11-12-2004, 08:05 AM	#6
Gavin Owers Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 2,935	I'm exactly like you, Jon. Nickelodeon and Doraemon were fine with me, but all these converted knickknacks that are popping out and scattering everywhere seems to be killing my motivation. I'm sure most people (particularly the newbies) would fail to understand why I'm feeling like this, I don't really know why myself, but it feels as if everything is unorganised now. I can't explain it. It's probably because I'm getting too old for 3dmm but I know I keep having this small fear/anger with this new stuff.

11-12-2004, 08:15 AM	#8
Midbackman Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,759	Y'know Pikios, you were right. I'd never finish TF. You were riiiiight. Tell your mother.

11-12-2004, 09:11 AM	#11
Yossarko Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 8,357	I agree with Sapone though, that like, in the old days, you would see a chain gun or something and be like "Woah..." and even after the film, go back and take the props apart to see how it was made. Now, you'd see the chaingun 3D model/object and be like "YEAH WHATEVER"
Yossarko Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 8,357

11-12-2004, 09:47 AM	#12
tronderboo Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 2,743	It's a conservative argument, but I agree too. The thrill of it was seeing what people could do with the random pieces of objects and words there. I remember going through some movies after watching them and selecting bits and pieces just to see how it was done. Also, I still ONLY have 3dmm... no expansions, no add-ons, no nothing. I doubt there's very much out there I can watch. Ah well, there's still the BB... which I visit an unhealthy amount of times every single day.

11-12-2004, 09:48 AM	#13
The Chinese Jew Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 14,225	Ben, u know...I still have your unfinished movie "Scott Free"

11-12-2004, 10:11 AM	#14
James Burgon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 8,689	I'm alienated, and I've lost all interest in 3dmm moviewise now.

11-12-2004, 10:13 AM	#15
Will Cheyney Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 5,063	Even though I think the whole v3dmm thing is quite exciting, I do think it may have a negative effect on directing in general. I do also feel a little behind the crowd. It will may also mean that flicks with better models could be perceived as 'better movies', when in actual fact is is pure eye candy that has sold the movie. I just hope that movies don't just become about the graphics (even more so than they have recently become with HMC becoming the norm).

11-12-2004, 10:22 AM	#17
Cal Flavell Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 10,557	Personally, I'm waiting for all the newbies who regularly use v3dmm to come in and defend it. But I agree with everybody that has posted so far.

11-12-2004, 10:32 AM	#18
Demented Ferret Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 16,248	Well...All I can say is - no one is forcing V3dmm on to you. If you want to make movies Old School style - go ahead, the people who've been here for longer will definately understand that THATS a movie where a lot of effort has gone into. V3dmm is a lot more appealing to people who cannot construct such masterpieces using blocks of 3d text, or for people who want to show their movies to people OUTSIDE of the board. Its the way things work - I have two opinions on the matter: 1. V3dmm is a giant step forward, people can make fantastic movies with a lot less fiddling about - the boundries have been literally crushed and out creativity using the program has expanded 1000x over. 2. HOWEVER V3dmm, undoubtedly will make the classic movies seem a lot more shoddy-looking. Infact, making a great looking movie without using V3dmm is a lot harder than before, but on the other hand, making a VERY good looking movie with V3dmm is still hard. I think that by pushing boundries you're not really pushing creativity down at all.

11-12-2004, 10:35 AM	#20
tronderboo Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 2,743	Scott Free woulda been wicked! Had I, you know, finished it an' all.

11-12-2004, 10:37 AM	#22
tronderboo Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 2,743	Aaah, I got it too. But, here's the thing. I started making it on 3dmm on my Windows 98 PC, went to Uni, bought an XP one and the whole title sequence went do-lally. I'll have to spend some time on it soon enough. When I've finished "Galbert of Bruges"'s MURDER OF CHARLES THE GOOD which I've got to read.

11-12-2004, 10:38 AM	#23
tronderboo Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 2,743	Oh yeah - Jeff, you might like this. Last night I met up with Adam Shaw and we made a commentary for "Control"... three times. Just getting more and more drunk as we went along. Was pretty funny, I haven't seen him for ages.

11-12-2004, 10:39 AM	#24
The Chinese Jew Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 14,225	By the way Ben, remember the most recent 8 page script I sent u? If u haven't read it yet, don't read it. I'll send u the most upto date version pretty soon.