September 11, One Year On. - Page 2

Shaun · 09-11-2002, 04:25 PM

A few hours ago I went to an assembly about 9/11 in school. They were telling us about who died and how lives were affected. They went over the list of people who died in this state (10 or so). One of the people was the guy who produced the TV show Fraiser.

And then after that they showed this video to us.

It was in the audotorium and it was presented on this kind of big cinema thing. Anyways, it was just pictures of September 11th and the Aftermath and stuff. More then half of it was just pictures of the class who made the damn video. The music and sound was terribly edited. Some songs were cut off, or repeated, or both. And for the most part it was all around boring. The entire time all i could think to myself was "Jesus, I could make a better video by myself." and I'm not even that good at editing.

Andres · 09-11-2002, 04:26 PM

How do you know there wouldn't have been coverage in another country? Has there EVER been the possibility of almost 3000 people dying on the same spot, with news coverage available?!?

Not to mention, it wasn't just "on the u.s.". It was on SYMBOLS OF POWER. If someone had crashed 2 planes on the Eiffel tower, OH, YOU BET there'd have been coverage.

And just .... what do you expect, Jim? Do you expect media to IGNORE the day? to make a 3-minute-tribute on it?

Jimmah · 09-11-2002, 04:29 PM

Yeah, there would have been coverage, but nowhere near as heavy as it was in the US and over here. It's still been exploited, the very fact they have a "9-11 cola" proves that. I bet if the Eiffel tower went down you wouldn't see "Eiffel icecreams" for sale.

The thing is, the US have inflicted enough civilian casualties themselves, but there's literally no cover on that. That's what you get when you can control what news comes in, and how it comes in.

Jimmah · 09-11-2002, 04:31 PM

And no, not a 3 minute tribute.. I mean, you have to recognise what happened, but when you turn on the TV and EVERY terrestial channel has an hour long show on it, it gets a bit tiring.

The other day, there was a tribute show on almost every channel. It's too much when they FORCE you to watch it when you want to watch TV.

Andres · 09-11-2002, 04:34 PM

Well dude... It was the start of many things... I mean, hey, it's not WORLD WAR II, but when there are WORLD ISSUES, they're broadcasted ACROSS THE WORLD.

And they're not FORCING YOU to watch SHIT. If you don't want to watch it, you turn off the T.V. That's like saying T.V. channels FORCE you to watch their programming.

And personally, i haven't seen 9-11 cokes or whatever, but there's always gotta be someone taking advantage of things.

Andres · 09-11-2002, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Private Jimmah
The thing is, the US have inflicted enough civilian casualties themselves, but there's literally no cover on that. That's what you get when you can control what news comes in, and how it comes in.

Consider all these factors:

- The U.S. can't have the same news coverage in Afghanistan, unless you consider having a camera while they're bombing your ass to be practical.

- It's harder to measure the casualties.

- It wasn't a question of one day.

and more. YES, i felt sad when the bomb hit on the wedding. But do i go around saying "HOLY SHIT THAT'S EVIL! FUCK THE SEPT. 11TH TRIBUTES! FUCK 'EM!"?

KC Vikander · 09-11-2002, 04:50 PM

I agree with Andres. I mean even if you don't like whats going on and people remembering, at least show respect and shut up. I know America may be being Hypocritical by mourning our losses and then killing afgans, but complaining doesn't do anything about it. So if you don't want to hear people talk about it, go somewhere else. But at least show respect to those who care.

Matt · 09-11-2002, 05:08 PM

I'm not against the tributes. I'm against the way the media are doing them. Y'know, with the "exclusives" and whatnot. I think that is exploiting it. They're using the stories of the familys involved for ratings. That is obvious.

Ok, so the S11 attack happened on US soil. But is it so hard for them in the huge tribute to mention the fact that innocent civilians in Afghanistan died. I mean, in reality the people in the towers were strangers to the majority of the American public. It was sad, yes, but they were strangers. Just like we didn't know the people in Afghanistan. I don't think something so petty as our geographical regions should come into play at the loss of lives. I mean Tony said in his "tribute" that the fact that we live in Australia shouldn't come into play, why is that not the case with Afghanistan?

It's because Afghanistan is seen as the enemy because the terrorists were from there. But you can't judge them all on the minority which were involved in the attacks. That would be like judging all Americans on the act of Timmothy McVeigh.

Andres · 09-11-2002, 05:13 PM

I haven't heard an "afghanistan is the enemy" comment. i've heared AL QAEDA, or THE TALIBAN, or BIN LADEN. but not "the people of afghanistan are the enemy". Granted, I haven't watched these tributes.

Matt · 09-11-2002, 05:39 PM

What I'm saying is that most Americans don't care about the loss of Arab life because Arabs are now seen as the enemy. I think the fact that there are countless tributes about the lives lost in the WTC but none about the lives lost in the counter attacks shows this. When Bush is reading his speech stuttering and what not and gets loads of cheers anytime he mentions attacking a middle-eastern country shows this.

Robert Domke · 09-11-2002, 05:43 PM

Well of course not, the whole ceremony is part of the American War Propaganda....thehe

Andres · 09-11-2002, 05:44 PM

Well you've gotta understand that a lot of the world population is stupid. But most people I know don't simply go around saying "oh, fuck arabs man".

Space Goat · 09-11-2002, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt
It's because Afghanistan is seen as the enemy because the terrorists were from there. But you can't judge them all on the minority which were involved in the attacks.

The majority where from Saudi Arabia, and so was Osama Bin Ladin. Afganistan was simply willing to harbor AL-QUEDA terrorist camps, where as Saudi Arabia would not. The hijackers where not from Afganistan.

Crazy Ivan · 09-11-2002, 06:11 PM

This thread is a plethora of gross generalizations and negligent assumptions. It sickens me. The issue at hand is not the fact that someone attacked almighty America, or that arabs are "the enemy". The issue is that 3,000+ people were murdered by an ordinary group of people. Not by highly trained military personell, not by a cruise missle launched 500 miles away, by 25 people with a plan. In the past, only goverments were capable of commiting such massacre, and buddy, if you think this doesn't effect you, you're wrong, no matter what country you live in. The fact of the matter is, those of you who do not live in the united States have no clue as to what "all Americans" think, so you're conclusions are not only baseless, they are moronic as well.

Besides your average mix of right-wing nuts and racists (of which every country's population inevitably contains), most Americans maintain a healthy view of the situation. The enemy is not the Afghani people, nor Arabs in general (and anyone well-versed in geography knows that Afghanistan is NOT an Arab country, nor are it's people Arab) and we also see, for the most part, unbiased reporting on the situation in that country. There is also the fact that the hijackers weren't even from Afghanistan, they were mostly Saudi and Egyptian! As far as "murdering innocents" goes, in any war there are collateral damages, it is unfortunate but true, and I dare anyone of you to tell me that your own country does not kill innocents during a war. Truth be told, the U.S. military has the lowest collateral kill percentage of any country on earth, estimated at 5%. So do not assume that we want to kill every Arab, or wipe out Afghanistan, you are wrong. The target has always been regimes that support and harbor terrorists, the main focus of which has been Mohammed Omar and the Taliban, as well as high-ranking Al Qeida members. If there is one mistake we are sure to make in Afghanistan, it would be to pull out without ensuring stability in the region, the same mistake we made in Iraq in '91 (more on that another time). If we leave too soon, the Taliban will merely create chaos, thus causing a control vacuum that allows them to return to power.

Furthermore, I resent the bitching and moaning about the media and 9/11. What most of you fail to take into account is that global media is still a business, and making money comes first. Believe it or not, most people in the world are focusing on today's date, so you will most likely see nothing else besides 9/11 coverage. Don't like it? Turn the fucking TV and computer off and go outside. Those of you who claim that no one would care if it was any other country but the US, I'd ask for some proof. Look at the enormous blunder commited by Germany regarding the 1972 Munich games hostage situation, when members of Black September held hostage and eventually murdered 11 Isreali athletes. I'd say the world still hasn't forgotten that, and that was 11 innocent people, where as the WTC, Washington D.C., and Penn. death toll was above 3,000.

Can any of you honestly believe that the world would ignore it if something on this scale happened anywhere else? In America we always see reporting of terrorist atacks in Isreal, or any other Europeon, African, and Asian city, so how can you claim that those deaths go ignored by us? If it had been an earthquake in NYC, do you think it would be as big a deal? Of course not. Sure, America would remember the date, but the rest of the world would forget, just as you've all forgotten the varous natural disasters that kill hundreds of thousands every year.

Frankly, the America bashing just angers me, especially when it's done by Americans who don't realize that it's the principals that their country was founded on that allow them to criticize it's actions in the first place. I don't mind the criticisms themselves, checks and balances are what has made this goverment survive beyond the 200 year death mark that usually ends most new forms of government. But if you really hate your own country that much, for God's sake, please leave. You're spending my tax money.

Crazy Ivan · 09-11-2002, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jynx
oh fuck you guys. Why is it such a tragedy when its only american lives being taken?

There were citizens of more than 20 different countries killed in the attacks.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jynx
What about the counter attacks by america which ended up killing just as many if not more INNOCENT people in afghanistan and labled calateral damage. What about that?

First of all, there have been nowhere near as many innocent deaths in the Afghanistan campaign as there were on 9/11. There haven't even been as many enemy soldiers killed as there were that day. And despite a few regrettable failures, the vast majority of those killed have been military personell and Taliban / Al Qeida supporters.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jynx
I mean, even after all the violence and carnage, what does the majority of the public wanna do? Go out there and give one to them fuckin towelheads! I go to school with asshole kids saying "NUKE EM! YEAAAAH!!" for christ sakes.

Please refrain from basing assumptions on the mood of the entire country on what a few angry hormone-fueled teenagers say.

Crazy Ivan · 09-11-2002, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brossy
You know, cynical and wrong and whatever... but speaking for the Arabs, they are seriously missing an incredible oppurtunity. There are thousands of americans out on the streets, imagine the effect if they bombed all the parades etc? They could wipe out thoussands of americans with no effort at all, at the same time as it being broadcast to the entire world.

You honestly think that Americans are out parading in the streets today? You think that's how we show mourning, by throwing a huge drunken party? Jeez, there aren't that many Irish people here.

Rabid Dinosaur · 09-11-2002, 06:56 PM

Speaking of September 11, we had a bomb threat at school today. We had to wait outside for at least an hour or two. We didn't even get to go home (even though it was obviously a stupid fuckhead who made it and wasn't really serious.)

Tuna Hematoma · 09-11-2002, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jynx
What about the counter attacks by america which ended up killing just as many if not more INNOCENT people in afghanistan...

...America sent them food! That makes up for it!

KC Vikander · 09-11-2002, 07:38 PM

Good speakin Ivan

Gorosaurus · 09-11-2002, 08:20 PM

Thank you for saving me the time of having to type all that myself, Ivan. I couldn't agree more. Some of you people make me sick, and I mean that. There's no point in now picking apart anyone's anti-9/11 thoughts, my views have already been stated by both Andres and Ivan, and most of all, Tony.

Either have some compassion or shut the heck up, I don't need your uniformed 'bandwagon anti-US' attitude. The nicest thing I can think of as to why anyone would possibly feel the other way is that they are simply uniformed, or mentally handicapped... if neither of those fit the bill, then the person is a monster in my eyes.

Just be glad you're not one of us who has lost someone due to this disgusting act of vengence and hate, maybe that would help you understand

Whitey · 09-11-2002, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crazy Ivan
First of all, there have been nowhere near as many innocent deaths in the Afghanistan campaign as there were on 9/11. There haven't even been as many enemy soldiers killed as there were that day. And despite a few regrettable failures, the vast majority of those killed have been military personell and Taliban / Al Qeida supporters.

I think I have to disagree with this. 2800 people died in the WTC, about 175 or so at the pentagon, and another 50 or 60 in flight 93. So, a little over 3000 people died.

Back in late June when that wedding was accidently bombed and 30 innocent people died, the death toll was estimated to be anywhere from 1500 to 4000 INNOCENT people. This number is probably a little higher now. Many of these deaths came from accidental bombings of villages or the INENTIONAL bombing of villages thought to house terrorists.

And when American nuked Japan it killed like 175,000 INNOCENT people, give or take. Does that number make it's way into the 5% figure?

Andres · 09-11-2002, 08:56 PM

That was WAR.

Whitey · 09-11-2002, 09:04 PM

True, but so is this spiff with Afganistan, supposedly.

1945...

American attacked a large city and killed many people. YAY FOR US!!!!111

2001...

Oh no...someone attacked NYC and killed many people! HOW COULD THEY DO SUCH A THING??? OH MY GAWD!! THESE UNCIVILIZED BASTARDS! THEY'RE EVIL! THEY HAVE EVIL UP THE WAZOO!!!!111 I CAN'T IMAGINE HOW THEY COULD EVEN DO THAT!! OMG!!!11111!!!111!!!1

Andres · 09-11-2002, 09:09 PM

1945 - A declared World War involving Europe, Asia, North America, and others.

2001 - No declared war. A terrorist group against a nation.

bad, bad analogy. bad.

Whitey · 09-11-2002, 09:11 PM

I know, I know

But it's still killing people who did nothing wrong.

On the subject of WWII...has anyone read Hiroshima by John Hersey? SWEET BOOK.

09-11-2002, 04:25 PM	#26
Shaun Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,881	A few hours ago I went to an assembly about 9/11 in school. They were telling us about who died and how lives were affected. They went over the list of people who died in this state (10 or so). One of the people was the guy who produced the TV show Fraiser. And then after that they showed this video to us. It was in the audotorium and it was presented on this kind of big cinema thing. Anyways, it was just pictures of September 11th and the Aftermath and stuff. More then half of it was just pictures of the class who made the damn video. The music and sound was terribly edited. Some songs were cut off, or repeated, or both. And for the most part it was all around boring. The entire time all i could think to myself was "Jesus, I could make a better video by myself." and I'm not even that good at editing.
Shaun Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,881

09-11-2002, 04:26 PM	#27
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797	How do you know there wouldn't have been coverage in another country? Has there EVER been the possibility of almost 3000 people dying on the same spot, with news coverage available?!? Not to mention, it wasn't just "on the u.s.". It was on SYMBOLS OF POWER. If someone had crashed 2 planes on the Eiffel tower, OH, YOU BET there'd have been coverage. And just .... what do you expect, Jim? Do you expect media to IGNORE the day? to make a 3-minute-tribute on it?
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797

09-11-2002, 04:29 PM	#28
Jimmah Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,705	Yeah, there would have been coverage, but nowhere near as heavy as it was in the US and over here. It's still been exploited, the very fact they have a "9-11 cola" proves that. I bet if the Eiffel tower went down you wouldn't see "Eiffel icecreams" for sale. The thing is, the US have inflicted enough civilian casualties themselves, but there's literally no cover on that. That's what you get when you can control what news comes in, and how it comes in.
Jimmah Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,705

09-11-2002, 04:31 PM	#29
Jimmah Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,705	And no, not a 3 minute tribute.. I mean, you have to recognise what happened, but when you turn on the TV and EVERY terrestial channel has an hour long show on it, it gets a bit tiring. The other day, there was a tribute show on almost every channel. It's too much when they FORCE you to watch it when you want to watch TV.
Jimmah Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,705

09-11-2002, 04:34 PM	#30
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797	Well dude... It was the start of many things... I mean, hey, it's not WORLD WAR II, but when there are WORLD ISSUES, they're broadcasted ACROSS THE WORLD. And they're not FORCING YOU to watch SHIT. If you don't want to watch it, you turn off the T.V. That's like saying T.V. channels FORCE you to watch their programming. And personally, i haven't seen 9-11 cokes or whatever, but there's always gotta be someone taking advantage of things.
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797

09-11-2002, 04:50 PM	#32
KC Vikander Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,424	I agree with Andres. I mean even if you don't like whats going on and people remembering, at least show respect and shut up. I know America may be being Hypocritical by mourning our losses and then killing afgans, but complaining doesn't do anything about it. So if you don't want to hear people talk about it, go somewhere else. But at least show respect to those who care.

09-11-2002, 05:08 PM	#33
Matt Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 131	I'm not against the tributes. I'm against the way the media are doing them. Y'know, with the "exclusives" and whatnot. I think that is exploiting it. They're using the stories of the familys involved for ratings. That is obvious. Ok, so the S11 attack happened on US soil. But is it so hard for them in the huge tribute to mention the fact that innocent civilians in Afghanistan died. I mean, in reality the people in the towers were strangers to the majority of the American public. It was sad, yes, but they were strangers. Just like we didn't know the people in Afghanistan. I don't think something so petty as our geographical regions should come into play at the loss of lives. I mean Tony said in his "tribute" that the fact that we live in Australia shouldn't come into play, why is that not the case with Afghanistan? It's because Afghanistan is seen as the enemy because the terrorists were from there. But you can't judge them all on the minority which were involved in the attacks. That would be like judging all Americans on the act of Timmothy McVeigh.
Matt Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 131

09-11-2002, 05:13 PM	#34
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797	I haven't heard an "afghanistan is the enemy" comment. i've heared AL QAEDA, or THE TALIBAN, or BIN LADEN. but not "the people of afghanistan are the enemy". Granted, I haven't watched these tributes.
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797

09-11-2002, 05:39 PM	#35
Matt Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 131	What I'm saying is that most Americans don't care about the loss of Arab life because Arabs are now seen as the enemy. I think the fact that there are countless tributes about the lives lost in the WTC but none about the lives lost in the counter attacks shows this. When Bush is reading his speech stuttering and what not and gets loads of cheers anytime he mentions attacking a middle-eastern country shows this.
Matt Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 131

09-11-2002, 05:43 PM	#36
Robert Domke Banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 3,779	Well of course not, the whole ceremony is part of the American War Propaganda....thehe
Robert Domke Banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 3,779

09-11-2002, 05:44 PM	#37
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797	Well you've gotta understand that a lot of the world population is stupid. But most people I know don't simply go around saying "oh, fuck arabs man".
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797

09-11-2002, 06:11 PM	#39
Crazy Ivan Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 9,462	This thread is a plethora of gross generalizations and negligent assumptions. It sickens me. The issue at hand is not the fact that someone attacked almighty America, or that arabs are "the enemy". The issue is that 3,000+ people were murdered by an ordinary group of people. Not by highly trained military personell, not by a cruise missle launched 500 miles away, by 25 people with a plan. In the past, only goverments were capable of commiting such massacre, and buddy, if you think this doesn't effect you, you're wrong, no matter what country you live in. The fact of the matter is, those of you who do not live in the united States have no clue as to what "all Americans" think, so you're conclusions are not only baseless, they are moronic as well. Besides your average mix of right-wing nuts and racists (of which every country's population inevitably contains), most Americans maintain a healthy view of the situation. The enemy is not the Afghani people, nor Arabs in general (and anyone well-versed in geography knows that Afghanistan is NOT an Arab country, nor are it's people Arab) and we also see, for the most part, unbiased reporting on the situation in that country. There is also the fact that the hijackers weren't even from Afghanistan, they were mostly Saudi and Egyptian! As far as "murdering innocents" goes, in any war there are collateral damages, it is unfortunate but true, and I dare anyone of you to tell me that your own country does not kill innocents during a war. Truth be told, the U.S. military has the lowest collateral kill percentage of any country on earth, estimated at 5%. So do not assume that we want to kill every Arab, or wipe out Afghanistan, you are wrong. The target has always been regimes that support and harbor terrorists, the main focus of which has been Mohammed Omar and the Taliban, as well as high-ranking Al Qeida members. If there is one mistake we are sure to make in Afghanistan, it would be to pull out without ensuring stability in the region, the same mistake we made in Iraq in '91 (more on that another time). If we leave too soon, the Taliban will merely create chaos, thus causing a control vacuum that allows them to return to power. Furthermore, I resent the bitching and moaning about the media and 9/11. What most of you fail to take into account is that global media is still a business, and making money comes first. Believe it or not, most people in the world are focusing on today's date, so you will most likely see nothing else besides 9/11 coverage. Don't like it? Turn the fucking TV and computer off and go outside. Those of you who claim that no one would care if it was any other country but the US, I'd ask for some proof. Look at the enormous blunder commited by Germany regarding the 1972 Munich games hostage situation, when members of Black September held hostage and eventually murdered 11 Isreali athletes. I'd say the world still hasn't forgotten that, and that was 11 innocent people, where as the WTC, Washington D.C., and Penn. death toll was above 3,000. Can any of you honestly believe that the world would ignore it if something on this scale happened anywhere else? In America we always see reporting of terrorist atacks in Isreal, or any other Europeon, African, and Asian city, so how can you claim that those deaths go ignored by us? If it had been an earthquake in NYC, do you think it would be as big a deal? Of course not. Sure, America would remember the date, but the rest of the world would forget, just as you've all forgotten the varous natural disasters that kill hundreds of thousands every year. Frankly, the America bashing just angers me, especially when it's done by Americans who don't realize that it's the principals that their country was founded on that allow them to criticize it's actions in the first place. I don't mind the criticisms themselves, checks and balances are what has made this goverment survive beyond the 200 year death mark that usually ends most new forms of government. But if you really hate your own country that much, for God's sake, please leave. You're spending my tax money.

09-11-2002, 06:56 PM	#42
Rabid Dinosaur Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 14,894	Speaking of September 11, we had a bomb threat at school today. We had to wait outside for at least an hour or two. We didn't even get to go home (even though it was obviously a stupid fuckhead who made it and wasn't really serious.)

09-11-2002, 07:38 PM	#44
KC Vikander Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,424	Good speakin Ivan

09-11-2002, 08:20 PM	#45
Gorosaurus Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 16,146	Thank you for saving me the time of having to type all that myself, Ivan. I couldn't agree more. Some of you people make me sick, and I mean that. There's no point in now picking apart anyone's anti-9/11 thoughts, my views have already been stated by both Andres and Ivan, and most of all, Tony. Either have some compassion or shut the heck up, I don't need your uniformed 'bandwagon anti-US' attitude. The nicest thing I can think of as to why anyone would possibly feel the other way is that they are simply uniformed, or mentally handicapped... if neither of those fit the bill, then the person is a monster in my eyes. Just be glad you're not one of us who has lost someone due to this disgusting act of vengence and hate, maybe that would help you understand

09-11-2002, 08:56 PM	#47
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797	That was WAR.
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797

09-11-2002, 09:04 PM	#48
Whitey Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,536	True, but so is this spiff with Afganistan, supposedly. 1945... American attacked a large city and killed many people. YAY FOR US!!!!111 2001... Oh no...someone attacked NYC and killed many people! HOW COULD THEY DO SUCH A THING??? OH MY GAWD!! THESE UNCIVILIZED BASTARDS! THEY'RE EVIL! THEY HAVE EVIL UP THE WAZOO!!!!111 I CAN'T IMAGINE HOW THEY COULD EVEN DO THAT!! OMG!!!11111!!!111!!!1
Whitey Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,536

09-11-2002, 09:09 PM	#49
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797	1945 - A declared World War involving Europe, Asia, North America, and others. 2001 - No declared war. A terrorist group against a nation. bad, bad analogy. bad.
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797

09-11-2002, 09:11 PM	#50
Whitey Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,536	I know, I know But it's still killing people who did nothing wrong. On the subject of WWII...has anyone read Hiroshima by John Hersey? SWEET BOOK.
Whitey Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,536