Which enemy of the Christian church are you?

[Scarecrow]

Originally posted by Shaun
All he's saying is that the existance of God cannot be proven true or false. What's the point of not believing in God? If you don't believe in God, and you're right, then it's no problem. But if you don't believe in God and he turns out to be real, well, you're probably fucked unless God is compassionate to everybody -- in which case you'll still look like a moron when you're dead.

If you DO believe in God, however, you'll be fine no matter what the truth is.

Andres already pointed this out in one of Ramza's posts, but I'd like to comment on Shaun's post here as well.

You are making it sound like there are only two choices- believe in god or don't believe in god.

It's not that simple. The choice is not

"pick one out of two"

it is

"pick one out of a thousand"

There are so many beliefs that simply believing in a god doesn't mean a thing. No matter what, your chances are the same.
This makes the argument that believing in god simply because you fear damnation irrelevant and just plain stupid.

[Xclexski]

Originally posted by Xclexski
you faggots made this thread REALLY REALLY gay.

[Scarecrow]

We heard what you said X, and if you know this board, as you should, then you know that no one really cares.

[Xclexski]

...who the fuck are you?

[Demented Ferret]

X, I was wondering if you were free tommorow, because I was wanting to know if you wanna come round, watch a movie, get some popcorn and shit and after have some gay sex.

OK? Cool...

[Scarecrow]

I love you guys, even if you don't know who I am.

[Demented Ferret]

Want to come over Mike?

[Scarecrow]

Sure, I must be fully satisfied, though.

[Whitey]

Yeah...you're really gonna get into Heaven for being a fucking agnostic. I'm sure God loves it when people want to skip over all the hard stuff (i.e. daily worship, living a wholesome life, killing abortion doctors) and just "kinda sorta" believe in him because of the off chance that Heaven is real.

Ya know what? Religion is all about one thing: FAITH. Christians don't care if the evidence against the existence of God is growing faster than my erection at the Super Bowl half-time show. They still believe in God because they have FAITH. Just like Andres has faith in scientific theory and his own logical reasonings.

So being agnostic is gay. You're doing something that you really don't believe in for the sake of some "prize" that you probably wouldn't get anyway, even if it existed. Which it doesn't.

[Demented Ferret]

Christian kids like being raped.

FACT.

[Shaun]

I don't believe in eternal damnation. Being tortured forever is just something I can't fathom the general population going through for an unimaginable amount of time. People can live through one traumatic incident and be fucked up in every way possible for the rest of their lives. I just don't see how a place like Hell, where you're tortured physically, mentally, and emotionally for all of eternity can be real.

I'm more afraid of being excluded from something -- such as paradise. But that's not the sole reason I believe in God.

[Demented Ferret]

Bah...I don't understand why people still worship 'Gods' and stuff...It seems like one of them crazy thing they'd do 3000 years ago around a fire or something...

...It's just really weird to me.

[Anthropophagus]

Let's put it in the real world. Look at the legal system. The police doesn't have any proof that I was the orchestrator of Sept 11th. Then again, I don't have any proof that I wasn't the orchestrator of Sept. 11th. I don't even know what such proof would be!

that's kinda untrue though. your memory serves as a method of proof - not to the police - but in life. let's just put the police aside for a moment. if you remember not having any involvement in orchestrating 9/11, that's a type of proof, in and of itself. you know that you didn't orchestrate 9/11. this assumes that your memory is not horribly flawed. memory, which typically removes nuances, can still retain general events - such as orchestrating 9/11.

trying to understand and prove the existence of (a) god(s) is fruitless. such a thing is beyond our comprehension. there is no way, at this moment, to prove or disprove the existence of (a) god(s). the only proof that (a) god(s) doesn't exist is the lack of proof. on the other hand, the proof that (a) god(s) exists is that there is no proof he does not exist. it's an infinite dilemma. i believe in a god to an extent, but i cannot concretely know until there is physical evidence.

[Swishy III]

* Sits back and watches a religion debate that he had no part in *

[Bown]

I want to see Sapone and Andres have a debate.

[Cal Flavell]

Originally posted by Swishy III
* Sits back and watches a religion debate that he had no part in *

Haha... yeah, refreshing, isn't it?

[Melrose Let Down]

[Jimmah]

Are you guys still arguing about the whole atheist thing?

Cus Andres is right btw. It's not being ignorant. That's stupid. Are you telling me Andres is saying himself "yeah, i'll be IGNORANT"?

Andres is right (about Atheists definition).

Ramza is right about God though, cus the bible says so.

AND APPARANTLY... THE BIBLE IS TRUE.

hence.. proof.

[Scatterbrain]

Originally posted by Crappy Klown


I think about life alot too. Too much.

Same...but I shan't go into it in any detail right now...

[Cambot]

Originally posted by Shaun
All he's saying is that the existance of God cannot be proven true or false. What's the point of not believing in God? If you don't believe in God, and you're right, then it's no problem. But if you don't believe in God and he turns out to be real, well, you're probably fucked unless God is compassionate to everybody -- in which case you'll still look like a moron when you're dead.

If you DO believe in God, however, you'll be fine no matter what the truth is.

Somehow I dont think that if God exists, he would like that. If you say "I'm just a Christian/Jewish/whatever because I don't want to go to hell" that's kind of like saying that I'm gonna cheer for my football team because if they win the Super Bowl then I picked right, not because I actually like the team.

Furthermore, belief is not something that a human being has any control over. One cannot "choose" to believe something without covering his ears and screaming every time a contradictory statement arises. A person's belief is totally subjective to his environment, and I'm not sure that a heavenly being would eternally judge someone by that.

[Shaun]

Originally posted by Jimmah

AND APPARANTLY... THE BIBLE IS TRUE.

I've got a distant cousin who's a nun. She admitted that the bible was a load of shit. So I'm going to with that.

[Andres]

Originally posted by Sapone
[b]that's kinda untrue though. your memory serves as a method of proof - not to the police - but in life. let's just put the police aside for a moment. if you remember not having any involvement in orchestrating 9/11, that's a type of proof, in and of itself. you know that you didn't orchestrate 9/11. this assumes that your memory is not horribly flawed. memory, which typically removes nuances, can still retain general events - such as orchestrating 9/11.

Yeah, but I meant proof that you can show to other people. A proof that you didn't do something or that something didn't happen would simply be finding a contradiction. Like an alibi. In the story that I orchestrated Sept. 11th, I could argue "well, I wasn't born when Sept. 11th happened". That would make the story inconsistent. You can't really disprove something in the sense that you can prove something; you can show it to be either logically inconsistent or lacking in support.

trying to understand and prove the existence of (a) god(s) is fruitless. such a thing is beyond our comprehension.

Beyond our comprehension? nah.

there is no way, at this moment, to prove or disprove the existence of (a) god(s).

Here's where you're wrong. This is only true when people speak of god as an abstract concept, like "i believe something created the universe... i'll call it 'god'. It's pretty hard to prove or disprove something like this, which doesn't even have a proper definition.

However, other gods make it quite easier. Like, for example, the Greek Pantheon. According to the Greeks (even if this isn't factual, pretend it is for the example's sake), Zeus throws lightning at the earth. But now we know lightning is not the product of someone making it. Therefore, Zeus (when defined as "that dude who throws lightning) is non-existent.

the only proof that (a) god(s) doesn't exist is the lack of proof.

Wrong again. If there is a God, and there's a story attached to this God, then it should be consistent if it's true. Let's take the Christian God (taken literally, of course. I'm not talking about the abstract loving creator some people have decided to call god with a capital G too). According to the Bible, this Christian God created the earth in a few days, and the Bible gives details about the order in which he did it. But this story isn't logically consistent with reality, and science. Therefore, we must deem this Christian God (when defined as "that dude who made the earth in 6 days") to be false. Sure, you can say "But you don't have to take the Bible literally", but that's beyond the point. The point is, we attach definitions to words, otherwise they're meaningless. Once you properly define this deity you're talking about, it's perfectly proveable (??).

on the other hand, the proof that (a) god(s) exists is that there is no proof he does not exist.

There's no real proof a God would exist. In fact, I've been misusing the word proof in this thread. What we need is evidence. Let's say the Bible says Jesus will come back in 2005. Then, in 2005, Jesus does come back, sends me to hell and all. I think that'd constitute evidence, or "proof" that this God exists. Your statement that proof of something is lack of proof to the contrary is absurd.

[Andres]

Originally posted by Whitey
Yeah...you're really gonna get into Heaven for being a fucking agnostic. I'm sure God loves it when people want to skip over all the hard stuff (i.e. daily worship, living a wholesome life, killing abortion doctors) and just "kinda sorta" believe in him because of the off chance that Heaven is real.

Wise words.

[Shaun]

I'm embarrassed.

[Fat Puppy]

Originally posted by Devon LoParo
Furthermore, belief is not something that a human being has any control over. One cannot "choose" to believe something without covering his ears and screaming every time a contradictory statement arises. A person's belief is totally subjective to his environment, and I'm not sure that a heavenly being would eternally judge someone by that.

Exactly. I was never raised to truely believe in God, thus, I never did. I tell people this, and they are shocked. SHOCKED. They can't comprehend the fact that I'm not scared of an almighty God. Really, thats the part of Christianity that makes me mad the most. I see it all the time. People are scared into their beliefs, instead of taking heart to and cherishing them. I can honestly respect a person who has a true belief, but when they only believe because they don't want to go to Hell, it just seems utterly pathetic.

And Shaun, Ramza, the statement that you should be agnostic just so you don't go to hell is one of the most flagrantly ignorant statements I have read. Sure, lets just forget our true beliefs, and adopt these different ones on the off chance there is a God. Right. I could honestly care less if there is a God, and he banishes me to Hell, because I don't believe in a God anyway, and I know that I lived my life according to my own beliefs. I'm not going to compromise my beliefs just because some supernatural being in some novel might banish me to some fire-filled abyss.

"So being agnostic is gay. You're doing something that you really don't believe in for the sake of some "prize" that you probably wouldn't get anyway, even if it existed. Which it doesn't."
Exactly.

Atheism is ignorance? What the fuck? How does blindly following a novel written thousands of years ago by imperfect mortals make a person less ignorant than me? What a crock of shit.